differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

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raisedhaze
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differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » March 24th, 2014, 2:17 pm

I snapped a photo of the back side of the two gauge clusters since I'm hoping to use the 86/87 style in my car with a B-swap. My question is - what needs to happen to obtain an electronic VSS signal with the older style cluster? I have taken out the 88/89 module/board that connects to the two pins on the back of the speedometer, but is that all that is needed? If that is in fact the VSS, I'm thinking I should be good to go. Does anybody have experience with this?

(88/89 cluster in top of image, 86/87 cluster on bottom)

Image

A few additional notes:

1) The 86/87 cluster has identical plugs to the dash harness as the 88/89 aside from the cruise control board.
2) The speedometer face is slightly moved to the passenger side on the 86/87 which means the cable connects in a slightly different spot. but this seemed to be a non-issue getting it all connected.
3) The plugs for the cruise control indicator light are the same in both units.
Last edited by raisedhaze on March 31st, 2014, 1:37 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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raisedhaze
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » March 24th, 2014, 2:45 pm

I think I found the answer for this.
http://rallybeater.com/thewhitecar/other-gaugevss.html
Thanks to the author!
Mind you this is for a swap into a 1987 civic cluster.

VSS Swap

We start by removing the VSS from the Integra cluster, so put the Civic cluster aside.

1.) Start by removing the clear plastic cover on the front of the gauge cluster. It should just be held on by some plastic clips on the top and bottom. Pull off the clear cover. The fat part on the end of the trip odometer reset button will just pull off. You should now have full access to the front gauge faces.

2.) On the back of the Integra cluster, there is a plastic cover that is external to the main cluster, and has a plug on it. This plug is for the VSS signal and the Cruise Control light. Remove this plastic cover by prying open the sides of the clips holding it to the main cluster housing. This is easily done by sticking a small flat-head screwdriver in the slot and twisting it open, while pulling gently up on the plastic cover.

Image
Image

3.) A small circuit board will now be exposed. Unscrew / disconnect all the wires coming off of the circuit board, then remove the circuit board itself, and put it aside, we will need it later!

4.) Unscrew the two screws on either side of where the speedo cable connects. These two screws hold the speedometer in. Once unscrewed, push forward on the speedo cable jack, and the speedometer should come out of the front of the cluster. The way it is assembled, the gauge faces slightly overlap each other, so you may have to work it out from under the face of the fuel gauge. Just try not to break anything. :)

Image

5.) Take a look at the back of the speedometer gauge. The VSS pulser is the cream colored plastic part. It is held on by 1 screw on each side of the speedometer body. You can see one sides screw in the picture... the screwdriver is right on it. Remove both screws, and pull the VSS pulser downwards. It should pretty much fall right out once unscrewed. You probably also need to unscrew and remove the odometer from the speedometer body, or else the VSS pulser may not have enough room to get out.

Image
Image
Image

At this point, you are done with the Integra cluster. The only parts you will need to keep is the VSS pulser. I also recomend keeping that external circuit board that was on the back of the cluster, just so that you can plug into the VSS with the factory plug. Note that the VSS signal goes straight to the plug pins on the circuit board, so you could actually connect the wiring harness directly to the VSS pulser and ground if you loose that circuit board.

6.) To install the VSS pulser into the Civic cluster, just take it apart exactly the same as the Integra cluster.

7.) Screw the VSS pulser onto the Civic speedometer body, in the same place it was in the Integra cluster.

8.) You will need to cut a hole in the back of your gauge cluster so that you can connect the wired to the VSS pulser.

9.) Reassemble gauge cluster.

10.) If you saved the Integra external circuit board, attach its VSS and ground wires to the Civic cluster, and attach the circuit board to the back.

Look at that! You're done!

Image

Some things to note: Though the original Civic cluster was not equiped with a VSS, it did have a signal that would turn on when the car was moving over 15mph. This is what the external plastic box on the back of the Civic cluster was for. The Integra ECU does not need this 15mph signal, and so you do not have to attach or in any way use the external box from the back of the Civic cluster. Also, note the final picture above has 2 wires and a bulb dangling. This was for the Cruise Control light. Do with it what you please. I just zip-tied mine up.
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby evtsteward » March 25th, 2014, 1:19 pm

Fantastic info bro. Nice job! :D Changed this to a stickey.
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » March 26th, 2014, 1:30 pm

Update:
Just to reiterate, I’m working to get an older 86/87 cluster to work in my B-swapped car equipped with a 88/89 dash harness which was working fine with the newer 88/89 cluster. I like the look of the older style cluster and it was original to the car.

After plugging things in on the 86/87 cluster, which connected fine after adding the newer VSS, I turned the key and noticed that it wasn’t wired the same. For example the indicator lights are not working properly. When I use the right blinker the indicator light for the left blinker flashes. Using the left blinker it doesn’t indicate anything. I also noticed that the fuel gauge was rising all the way to full even with an empty tank. There may be more issues that I didn’t notice as well.

My plan is to sit back down and trace leads on the two dashes to map out what needs to be de-pinned and moved to new locations on the connectors. I believe everything should be there, but they just got re-arranged from 86/87 to 88/89. I’m probably not going to get to this for a couple months though since I first need to get it drivable for tuning. Stay tuned, I’ll write it up the best I can.
Last edited by raisedhaze on April 5th, 2014, 5:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby Integra » March 26th, 2014, 2:25 pm

I had the same thing back in 2002...

I have dealermanuals with wiring schematics...
I think there will be no difference in the US wiring and EU wiring.... So maybe it can be helpfull to you?
I will take a look at it in a moment ;)

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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » March 26th, 2014, 3:33 pm

Integra wrote:I had the same thing back in 2002...

I have dealermanuals with wiring schematics...
I think there will be no difference in the US wiring and EU wiring.... So maybe it can be helpfull to you?
I will take a look at it in a moment ;)


That sounds like great info to add. If you get a chance please post it up!
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raisedhaze
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » March 31st, 2014, 3:09 pm

Update:

Friday night I decided to dig into the FSMs to see if they had information on the gauge clusters. I was able to find schematics and circuit diagrams which was great and allowed me to make a map comparing each year.

Update: One mistake. I need to move the hatch indicator light to position A1.

Pin Map for Gauge Clusters by year
Image

Below is the information as it's shown in the manual. Notice the highlighted pins which were incorrect in the FSM for the 86/87. (two had duplicates and one was missing altogether) I was able to trace leads for the incorrectly labeled functions and get things figured out pretty easily though. The remainder ended up being correct.

86/87 Gauge Cluster Diagrams
Image
Image
Image

88/89 Gauge Cluster Diagrams
Image
Image
Image

When I got all the pins switched over, a few wires ended up not having enough slack to reach the plug on the cluster. All said and done I had to extend 3 wires to swap a 1986/1987 gauge cluster into a 1988/1989 dash. The wires that needed extending were all on the B connector - A ground (Blk), the R. Turn signal (Grn/Yel), and the Brake Warning Light (Grn/Red).

Here are a few snaps of the before and after extending:

Before:
Image
Image
After:
Image
Last edited by raisedhaze on April 5th, 2014, 6:01 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby Integra » March 31st, 2014, 7:02 pm

It seems that the EU cluster is different!
I have compared it with my books and colors are different and some pins....

Does it work now?

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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby raisedhaze » April 1st, 2014, 1:32 pm

Integra wrote:It seems that the EU cluster is different!
I have compared it with my books and colors are different and some pins....

Does it work now?


Do you have the EU manual to share?

Both clusters in my case were USDM. It works flawlessly after shifting pins to the correct positions.
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Re: differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby Integra » April 1st, 2014, 1:53 pm

I have to find some time to scan my manuals, but I will put them online when I have them ready ;)


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differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby GonzaE » April 15th, 2016, 6:58 pm

Ive heard that Flatout UC is a nextgen port of Flatout 2? What are the actual differences between the two? One thing Ive noticed is the Co-op option in UC.


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differences between 86/87 and 88/89 cluster

Postby AlecarrIsog » October 14th, 2016, 2:58 pm

wish I still had my bronze 12 to show but yea my number plate surround i have in the shed from my first 12 doesnt fit the bronze one and the only differences between the two were the sunroof and a few months build time weird


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Postby rentdresysu » December 8th, 2016, 2:18 am

rofl only 10 months late there thermal :P Id post pics of my teg but Im ashamed of it. its dirty and broken.. Maybe some pics this summer when it gets fixed


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